Tuesday, September 4, 2007

Ten Obvious Things To Do Against 4DPS (you'll still lose anyways)

Ten Things To Slow 4DPS:

1) Counterspell offensive casts: Prioritize -- Unstable Affliction, Frostbolt, Lightning bolt. You should be counterspelling the target that your other teammates cannot as easily interrupt. While counterspelling a mage's frost tree might not seem as strong as taking out a lock's shadow or a shaman's nature tree because a mage can use other spell trees, these are much less efficient and have almost no burst potential.

2) You need to mana burn to win if they have a warlock. (which they will) You CANNOT just outheal their damage as warlock and WE mage DPS is EXTREMELY efficient and both classes can put out huge damage for a long time. However, the mage is extremely susceptible to mana burn as he needs to be out in the open to do damage to his target. If WE can be killed quickly, you land a few good burns on the mage, and deny evocate, you've taken away the mage's damage. (The mage is still a real pain with r1 poly and nova)

3) Classic+FG Lock is the best 4DPS counter. (that is a normal team) Put the FG on the mage and keep mage occupied with tongues spam. Mana burns on the shadowpriest and CC spam on their other DPS. Kill WE as mage summons them. You can afford to have your warrior play quite evasively.

4) Don't be overly picky with target choice for your warrior. He should be on the lock, shadowpriest, or rogue. Often he'll be getting snared and stunned so much he can't get on the optimal target, either split DPS at this point or assist on the target that he can actually hit. Hanging out in defensive with 2h out between spell reflects is going to be a lot better than sword and board against most teams. Depending on your matrix, it is certainly possible to get an early kill against 4DPS given your warrior doesn't take himself out of the fight too much.

5) 4DPS teams tend to rush to land AE fears to burn fear wards. Anticipate the rush and position yourself to avoid losing your fear wards unnecessarily. It's often better to meet the 4DPS team midway than let them rush into you, again don't eat novas and fears recklessly.

6) Paladins on 4DPS team to use sacrifice VERY liberally especially after they bubble. (which they tend to do early) If you're in the midgame and the mana war is starting too look bad for your team, consider killing their paladin who might be <50% health just from sacrifice damage. (He won't have time to heal himself the whole game most likely)

7) Shadowpriests are the target of choice for most teams that fight against 4DPS teams. The thought is that you reduce the SP's damage dramatically by making SWD prohibitively dangerous and shadowpriests have no interruption resistance on mind flay or mind blast. While this is true, I always considered the important shadowpriest responsibilities on a 4DPS team to be: Dispels, Misery, Silence, Mass Dispel, and then finally damage. A good shadowpriest can do a lot of these tasks while taking focus (plus has decent physical mitigation) and perhaps the best outcome of focusing a shadowpriest early is not landing a kill but putting them in a position where they're eating tons of mana burns or are being forced to run away and neglect their dispelling role. Keep pressure on SPs but don't recklessly chase.

8) If poly is on DR, and CS is down, nova is not bad against mages chain casting -- they'll frequently Blink out either due to habit, to stay in casting range, or to avoid needless lance damage.

9) Cyclone is really nasty against 4DPS obviously -- if you have a hunter pet or felguard, cyclone the mage and then put the pet on them. Cyclone still strips players of their auras and its unlikely the pally will spend a global reapplying Concentration Aura. Against most 4DPS team, expect their mage or lock to be on controlling the pally healing and either silences or earthshocks to be on your druid trying to limit Cyclone spam. Fake cast and use range well.

10) Position! 4DPS depends on position requirements. The mage needs to be in the open with LoS on you and needs to be outside of shatter combo "dead zone." The lock requires LoS to get up UA to project his shadowpriest's DoTs. If they make it obvious who their target is (your warrior), keep him out of the fight for the first few seconds and ensure he can get the charge and avoid eating massive caster damage spam.

13 comments:

Nadagast said...

Hmm, I really disagree about Classic+Lock being the best counter to 4dps. I think 2345 is a better counter setup, mainly because of the heals, the extra burst which really helps getting a kill when you can't rely on warrior damage, and tremor/grounding are just brutal. The difference between trying to lock down 2 healers vs 3 healers is so huge and cannot be understated...

In hindsight we maybe should have gone for a healer on day 2 because that was really the big problem. :) good games

Anonymous said...

Why did you quit playing 4DPS again? Could anyone beat you?

Anonymous said...

Yeah, cuz' 2345 takes a lot more skill...

teki said...

Cause 4DPS is for scrubs?

BTW Raddy, any interest in playing fury?

zarthustra said...

Tried this 0/38/23 business just to see what it was all about. Played a few games with my Rogue friend in 2v2, and it is my opinion that this spec sucks. This isn't because I lack survivability, but the damage is straight up weaker than having Water Buddy in 2s; I have a hard time imagining it's much better in 5v5.

I actually thought that I would deal more damage with this spec but have significantly less survivability, because Water Buddy tends to get LoS'd or Banished considering the amount of warlocks playing.

As for what our rating is just to demonstrate that I'm not explicitly terrible, our high has been 2334 and we are currently 2200.

Personal reasoning:

1) Cold Snap / Frost synergy. 2 Water Buddies, 2 Novas on demand at ridiculous range. Even if Water Buddy gets off only 2 bolts, that's 1600+ damage, not to mention the damage increase from Lance due to the ranged nova.

2) 2 piece Aldor makes up for Burning Soul. I use the Head/Shoulder pieces, and sacrifice 59 resilience. The survivability gained from having Ice Barrier makes up for the difference in resilience, easily. This is more of an argument against Burning Soul increasing the amount of damage output, and I consider the damage from casting Scorch to be rather insignificant.

3) Ice Lance damage increases from Piercing Ice / Winter's Chill is significant. Considering how little scaling Ice Lance has, an extra 11% damage is pretty incredible.

4) Water Buddy. See #1.

5) Imp. CS. Only really makes a huge difference in 2s and 3s, though.

There are other reasons but these are just the quick ones I thought of. I spec'd out of it pretty quick after seeing the damage disparity with my rogue friend (As frost, in one game I was at 17k damage and he was at 15k damage vs. a Druid/Lock team we beat, and as the elementalist spec I was at 10k damage and he was at 27k damage vs. a Priest/Lock team we lost to) as well as the decrease to survivability.

Nizk said...

2345 does take more skill than 4dps.

Which is not to say it takes more skill than other classic + x setups, but 4dps is retardedly simple to play.

We played a joke 4dps setup when our priest was away for a week, running war/deep frost mage/ele sham with 500dmg/boomkin/paladin and once we got the hang of it we shit on pretty much everyone who played normally.

klassick said...

WORLD OF WARCRAFT TAKES EXCEPTIONAL AMOUNTS OF SKILL



I also believe that awful elemental spec is just that, awful.

Anonymous said...

There are definitely better setups than classic+FG warlock to counter 4 dps with.

Siddhartha said...

Could you give a word or some tips for mage/h-priest/rouge against sham/war/pala - im having lots of problems with the setup.

me(mage) and the rogue goes on the sham
i cs the pala but lots of time there is shit totems up and stuff.
warrior seems to be killing our priest really hard. i try to control him but without my dps the shaman its seems a kill wont happen before the warrior kills our priest. Any tips would be nice :)

Crispy said...

I love it when I am trying to sheep 4DPS Shamans and Warlocks, And they go ahead and get the stealth detection buff.

But the mana burning part, that seems like pretty solid info; will def take that into consideration with my team :D

teki said...

So the first WE pvp mage isn't playing WE anymore? =p

Anonymous said...

A good paladin will just use rank1 bosac.

Vontre said...

First what? I was playing water elemental in beta. =p