Tuesday, June 10, 2008

Aggro LOL

I was reading Bethryn's What's Wrong With Aggro and was pretty embarassed to realize that I had never put any thought into how stupid the aggro mechanic really is. I mean. Seriously retarded. I mean you are supposedly fighting these intelligent, powerful motherfuckers and all they do is basically autoattack your warrior and occasionally cleave. All PvE bosses are basically just bad warriors on bad cleave teams.

While training warriors nonstop is sometimes effective, PvE really needs to learn to target swap, CC, and land some interrupts.

It seems to me that creating AIs that act like PvPers isn't terribly difficult. WoW is pretty straightforward. I'm pretty sure you can craft an AI that can pillar hump and press Lifebloom. Why don't mobs use their environments to their advantage at all? I think a PvE redesign from a PvP perspective would be pretty cool. Start with 2s. Try to create bots that emulate players. Work up to fives. Focus on movement, positioning, and targetting. Actually deciding how to spend your globals is pretty simple.

It might be hard to translate into 25man content, but maybe not.

The points made about threat meters I couldn't agree more with: stupidest shit ever. Your job is to push fireball which is already a pretty boring job. Because of aggro mechanics, you have a mod that tells you when to stop pushing fireball. You obey the mod -- you get purples. PvE is awesome. (Okay, the truth is PvE 'skill' has almost nothing to do with how well you play your class, but other factors, whatever)

I don't PvE at all but I perhaps would if it was less downs. ^^ Or if I could use the purples to own people and then shittalk them on IRC. LEARN TO TANK GLAIVES BAD PRIEST.

19 comments:

Anonymous said...

v engeful gladiator

Anonymous said...

A number of fights have no threat list at all. Also the article (I read about 1/3 of it because it was annoying) treats PvE like it's entirely tank and spank when extremely few of the fights are. Also, immersion hasn't been a part of this game since? Ever, that's when. Raid tanking might be one boring aspect of the game but MANY fights are designed to make that even entertaining and challenging.

Anonymous said...

What's the addon that shows your CDs on screen as they come off cooldown?

Anonymous said...

Aaah, the "PvE = noskill, Pvp = pro"-flame. Be a bit less retarded, plx.

Anonymous said...

i think im in love with you raddy

Anonymous said...

Basically, there are no viable ideas on how to make PvE work without aggro mechanics.

Unless all bosses are C'thun, and even that gets boring after a while.

Anonymous said...

The 3rd boss in Magisters Terrace is an experiment in creating a 5v5ish experience in pve, non-traditional threat list, interupts and CC work, they use "trinkets" to break CC effects. The fight is pretty fun for a 5 man, but I think we've got a ways to go.

Puritania said...

LEARN TO TANK GLAIVES BAD PRIEST.

^^ I suspect this will make my day.

Anonymous said...

Radikal, thanks for proving time and time again what a huge tool you are.

Yeah, make intelligent bosses that ignore prot warrior and go 1 shot healers every time. With the amount of power raid bosses have, they would be unkillable if programmed to behave like players.

To implement this, all PvE content would have to be completely redesigned.

Anonymous said...

Check out http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=72417

He's not the best mage in the world, but how does this vid not make you want fuckin vanilla back?

Anonymous said...

glaives aren't purple ;/

Anonymous said...

"Yeah, make intelligent bosses that ignore prot warrior and go 1 shot healers every time. With the amount of power raid bosses have, they would be unkillable if programmed to behave like players."

Thanks for proving what a tool YOU are.

No one suggested this, no one is saying they want this. This is the kind of shit that people like to talk when putting crap in people's mouths.

Radikal:
OMAN LETS MAKE PVE A BIT MORE STRATEGIC!

You:
NOWAI MAN THEYD KILL OUR HEALEARS WAY FAST MAN!

Anonymous said...

11:35 p.m.: At a private table at a sh*tty club with my roommate and her friend, being fed Grey Goose by a promoter. Some douchnugget sits next to me and asks me if I’m a model, I inform him that I’m actually a stripper. His eyes light up and he proceeds launch off on a compare and contrast session between my job and being an investment banker, which is what he does. I stare at him for a while and then decide I’m too drunk for this and announce I’m leaving. He asks if I’ll be at the club next weekend. I say no.

Raddy?

Tef said...

PvM shouldn't be hard.

PvE doesn't exist, "environment," please, we aren't going around PK'ing trees.

Ive said...

"PvE doesn't exist, "environment," please, we aren't going around PK'ing trees."

Then you're doin it wrong

Anonymous said...

You have the 5v5 PvP boss in Magisters Terrace. It's fun watching the combat rogue fist fuck your only healer 100-0 in a second. None of them have an aggro table as threat seems to reset every 5 seconds at most.

I will agree that threat meters made an easy game even more boring. But without aggro there are only so many encounter designs you can handle. Even with aggro there are so many options....and WOW has pretty much explored all of them over time.

But if you were to really read that blog closely, that guy is just emo bored with all games. He realizes that his imagination has been replaced with someone else's design and he feels trapped and bored with his current options.

The only solution here is suicide because if you can't find a game that makes you happy, clearly your life is over.

ps mages have small penis

Oppo said...

The leader of the guild is tired
as the content's growing old
we can't summon a replacement yet
cause the warlocks need more souuuuls

kara opera after 3 attempts
the crone ends up killed
We D/E another 'legacy'
for the leader of the guild.

TheAmoeba said...

personally WoW PvE fights are boring. Sometimes they are fun. But not really. Basically all boss fights are just predicted scripted cycle sequences. Problem is PvE isn't dynamic. The stay one way and thats the way the fight is. PvP has a similar setup except since everything is human controlled the playstyle and interaction is much more dynamic and exciting.

There you go.

Garrett said...

Making AI that even comes close to resembling a human player would be incredibly difficult... I know it's popular to say this shit is so easy but humans brains are so complex, there are so many situations it's extremely difficult to come up with rules that a computer can follow. You would need so many different rules...