I'm a bit late to the party to discuss the recently (reasonably) released wave of class changes, but I have a few thoughts to sound out, and fuck it, it's my website and I'll blog if I want to. I use "wave" of class changes as I'd bet my left testicle that these are only the beginning of what's to come as 2.4 PTR evolves.
The changes are in line with the rumored list of potential class changes leaked a few weeks back, and very briefly, here are my thoughts on some of the more interesting points.
Slow/Blink/Spellsteal mana cost reduction. (448/470/448 respectively)
Obviously the Blink and Spellsteal reductions are huge and are basically the main gripe most top players have had with the class. It's no elixir to the general problem of poor sustainability, but it's going to extend how long we can go pre-evocate (which basically takes us out of the fight even if we can get it off) and let us actually occasional use Spellsteal. Rumors of further changes to Blink abound. (New Imp Blink in later PTR build?)
Bringing Back Poly -.15 Seconds 4PC.
Terribad.
PI changed to 20% haste.
Retarded change that pretty much means PI is going to be solely used for mana burn. It's so bad that I can see BR priests coming back in the smaller brackets. Increasing the haste of your warlock or mage is borderline useless in 3s, and quite marginal in 5s considering you've got IV, bloodlust and PI now all as nonstacking cast speed buffs. The real change should just be to weaken the buff and really lower the CD.
Removing Stamina from T6. (There's no stam on the shit anymore LOL)
Thank you. See, you get good shit when you're a good person. I never shit on a bitch. EVER.
Lifebloom nerf. (9%?)
A-fucking-men.
IV nerf.
Thank god. Playing mage in 5s has become: get zerged, get free, get PI-Lust-IV, spam and hope to win. This change should help slow down the game a lot, which coupled with all the other changes should probably improve 5s gameplay somewhat.
EM and NS nerf.
Finally? I mean combustion and PoM shared a cooldown for a year even when there was really no similar threat. It's not an elegant solution, and one can certainly argue that AP+PoM is the same thing, but considering the nature of the respective classes, the shaman "IWIN" button was really pretty stupid. This change along with the nerf to the Elemental 4-piece bonus should reduce by a decent amount the damage that shamans can put out under pressure. Removing unmitigatable damage from the game is a good thing. ^^ And yeah unmitigatable isn't word, but it sounds sweet.
Pally fear change.
My favorite change in the whole patch. I think this will be great for 2s and 3s. Between fear and HoJ on the pet, pallies can actually get some decent windows to heal plus they can set up kills on the pet or perhaps bait pet despawns. Sounds hot. ^^
General Thoughts:
As much as changes are interesting independent of one another, the total impact of the how this stuff will change arena dynamics is non-obvious and considerably more interesting. It's pretty easy to figure out how these changes are going to change your dueling odds, but in arenas?
In 2s:
Pre 2.4:
I think AP/Fire + ShS or Muti rogue is a TOP team. It will not beat top warlock/healer teams with any consistency but that's fine, it can beat every other strong team and it wins these with probably higher frequency than a WE mage will. That being said, I think WE + muti rogue is also strong, strong enough for people to not be emo about 2s balance so much to not play the bracket. I like AP/Fire because, by keeping fights short, the class's mana issues are really not very significant.
Post 2.4
Ranged molten armor will be mostly a non-issue. Is impact stunning a warlock as he dots me up going to change much? Might help AP/mage + rogue vs WE mage + rogue a bit, but that's a fight I've never lost as is. WE mage should be forced to block first, after which pom pyro rushdown should be a gauranteed kill -- the extra stuns might help. (Yes the WE team can play a non-aggressive strat where they try to hardcore CC mage and kill rogue -- I've never seen it done well) Otherwise, it's not obvious to me where this is going to really help. (And no, I don't think it will help much against hunter/druid or hunter/priest)
The reduced mana costs on Blink and Spellsteal are going to help WE+muti rogue a lot as will the bufs to Muti. Muti rogue + Ap mage I've still yet to try, it sounds pretty potent, but depending on how things work out, I can see some neat potential with perhaps using Spellsteal to deny HoTs and stall for time.
I don't imagine MA + WE specs being popular in 2s just because of Imp CS's relative potency in the 2s bracket. That's just me though.
Slow still accomplishes very little in this bracket. I don't think it significantly helps a 33/28 mage against the few teams where it is marginally effective enough to compensate for losing both Blastwave and Blazing speed which help a ton against every 2dps team. The extra burst you gain from MM really doesn't make up for losing the extra instant during a rushdown anyways.
WE Mage + lock should improve moderately. They gain better lasting power and there's really no lock nerfs in place yet. I think this is a top team that just isn't played much and is perhaps the strongest mage 2s comp. Their CC protects each other well and eventually sets up a kill.
Mage+Ret Pally? Who knows, seems like it could be strong.
Mage+Healer - Still not viable with these changes.
Overall, some nice changes to the class in particular, coupled with indirect buffs to one of our best teammates (muti rogue) and some mild nerfs to our trouble classes (druid lifebloom change, chastise nerf, PI nerf etc), mages should improve enough to be somewhat more competitive.
In 3s:
Obviously, a lot of people are thinking Molten Shields + WE. It has solid potential and really helps address the 2.3 mage weakness of being unable to kite Shadowstep rogues for shit. I don't think the muti change will be enough to bring back muti rogues in RMP and that coupled with the PI and chastise nerfs are going to really hurt RMP burst. The other changes do not seem to compensate, and the current style RMP is definitely eating a pretty solid nerf -- I think RMP will generally still be fine, but playing it hyper-aggressive doesn't seem like it will be as effective. (Which is fine as mages are much better equipped than they were a few patches ago at lasting in longer games)
I don't think this will have much impact on mage matrices -- Hunter/Mage/Priest, Rogue/Mage/Priest, War/Druid/Mage, and Warlock/Druid/Mage are still going to be the best options. RMP improves the least of the four with the latest wave of changes. (I think...)
In 5s:
The changes amount to a big nerf to 2345. Mages are starting to see representation in other comps now (3dps+rogue), but the sacrifices do seem to outweigh what's been picked up. Without the potential for retarded PI+Heroism+IV spam, I'm just not sure what the class brings to 5s anymore. I still believe that mages and locks work fantastically well together in 5s, and there's still a lot of potential for the 4CC type teams. I don't really feel the class is handicapped terribly going forward in 5s, but the game has been gradually shifting in a direction where the class feels increasingly marginalized. Pushback reduction is a bandaid solution and as play evolves, it's becoming more difficult for casters to make use of their outs.
I'd ramble on more but I'm messing with shit on PTR. <3
XOXO
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28 comments:
first haha i did it
Dont forget the 80 water buscuit nerf!
"Ranged molten armor" ??
is this from that "leaked" list or has it been confirmed?
ranged molten armor is on ptr right now (molten shields)
imo it kinda sux
Should check the mage vids on wowmovies Raddy...I've watched a few good ones recently, that's where all the good vids hide these days.
http://www.wowmovies.cn/down_live.asp?id=12026&down=1
this guy seems real fast...I don't know if he sped the movie up or what but his shit seems quick. He changes to elemental like half way through btw
Mage Lock is not a good 2s setup :)
Any team with a priest or druid is hard and that's most teams that have a healer
Any 2dps with a rogue you shouldn't beat, which is most other 2dps teams
So pretty much, you beat Pal War, you can beat other setups but generally its pretty hard
imo its pretty early to be talking about lots of ideas, this is just iceberg ptr, imo t6 will get hp back b/c of kewkew
Maybe they changed our set bonus because of the incoming improved blink buff that's going to be like Mystical Skyfire Diamond?
rogue mage druid = more aggressive rmp.
Rumored blink change is that Imp Blink will give you a short evasion after the blink. (The evasion will be ranged, physical, and spells)
kind of like rogue cheat death, interesting. except for the IV nerf (I just respecced out of pve arc fire to play with it and as a troll I love it times two) 2.4 seems pretty exciting.
Well on cyclone there are 2 mage Dpriest teams that have both gone past 2.2k rating (Ă€nother & Orly and Trigz & Zty) so i guess mage healer can work out...?
which ptr yo
"WE Mage + lock should improve moderately. They gain better lasting power and there's really no lock nerfs in place yet. I think this is a top team that just isn't played much and is perhaps the strongest mage 2s comp. Their CC protects each other well and eventually sets up a kill." raddy
You know I used to think you were a good mage but this really made me see how retarded you are.
Mage/lock sucks and this combo didn't get any extra lasting power as they are just gonna zerg your lock and enjoy the free rating.
"I don't think the muti change will be enough to bring back muti rogues in RMP"
Muti is currently the strongest spec for RMP right now, at least from my experience, and most of those experienced with both sides of it agree with me. The muti change is just a bonus
I can't agree with you on the shaman nerf. With the PI change shaman burst is already indirectly nerfed. The 4pc set bonus change does not really affect 5v5 which is the only bracket that shamans are present in being that all the common shaman makeups include imp conc aura. Either way, without their burst shamans will more or less vanish from 5's, totems and lust aren't attractive enough to bring someone into your 5's team that can't do anything else very effectively. I expect the EM/NS nerf to be reverted without a significant tree revamp and new 41 point talent (hi ar/prep).
P.S. As much as you want mage changes (and they are deserved) I'd argue they are second worse class in the game overall for pvp, to shamans....
with the pi change every caster was nerfed, not only shaman.
I ran muti RMP way back in like 2.2, but the game was pretty different. I've always liked muti in every bracket since s1. I think muti is just a bit frustrating when you end up playing RMP mirrors a lot against ShS rogues who can not only sit on your mage better, but are much harder to quick swap zerg due to cheat death gayness. But then again, a muti rogue is (and will even more so be in 2.4) a real solo threat.
Mage/Lock is a fine 2s comp -- who the fuck is "training your lock" when almost every team is 1dps and you should and can CC the fuck out of that dps while you put out moderate pressure.
I have zero doubt I could run mage/lock with a strong lock to 2200+ on this BG.
As for mage/priest -- I actually ended up messing around at around 2k rating with this team a few times and had fun with it. I know that Affix ran it with at least moderate success at some point -- I always felt guilty just because I knew a lock would make a better teammate for whatever priest I would harass to play with me. ^^
My point was never to say that mage/healer is impossible to succeed with, just that it doesn't really improve -- it's not popular just because mages are emo and rogue/mage is much easier to succeed with...
You know who plays mutilate...Viral.
He's on BB now i'm pretty sure, the most ballerlicious of ballerlicious servers. All I see when I think of BB is an empty dueling area outside IF and honor groups with crazies who have terrible mics.
Raddy, I played Mage Lock to like 2450 last season, and to like 2200 this season, you can win somewhat but its really random, and *ridiculously hard* vs a lot of really popular setups.
ShS Rog + Priest
Lock Priest
Lock Dru
War Dru
ShS Rog Dru
Hunter Dru
Are all pretty much 100% losses if the enemy players are half decent. There are a lot of other setups that have 80-100% loss rate too, if the other players don't have their head too far up their ass.
I would never ever qualify Mage Lock as a decent setup with the current state of the game. You have to really outskill people to win vs 90%+ enemy setups
"I'd ramble on more but I'm messing with shit on PTR. <3"
Does this mean a new Raddy vid?! ;)
Hunter Dru
Lock Dru
Lock Priest
Lock Pally
Rogue Dru
Hunter Priest
The above is like impossible for a mage and a rogue team so really what is your point people
It's all about mage/disc priest 2s tbh
Viral is indeed on BB, but he barely plays at all anymore. It's almost never him on his account.
"I have zero doubt I could run mage/lock with a strong lock to 2200+ on this BG"
I'd love to see that.
And I hope you mean 2200+ now cause end season ofcourse 2200 is piss easy.
With every combo that is.
Not saying lock/mage is good, I just meant that even very gimped combos can get 2.2K easily.
still tho i actually think mage priest is the funniest 2on2 setup i've played playing with eye of moam on and then glad set with spell pene gems makes lock teams doable
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